Join me for a conversation with Eileen Koval, a dog behavior specialist, as we discuss the beauty of the way dogs interact with the world around them through stories of her pups, Gilgamesh and Bones. We also discuss her philosophy of finding ways we can set our pups up to succeed, which I love!
Be sure to visit her site at https://www.confidentcaninesdogtraining.com!
Transcript
Julie Jackson:
Hey, welcome to Happy Tales of Happy Tails, the podcast where you’ll hear stories of the way pups have touched our hearts and our lives. So for the next few minutes, let everything else go and just listen and smile. I’m your host, Julie Jackson. Hey, friends. This week, we have a great conversation with Eileen Koval, the owner of Confident Canines. She has such an interesting business. She specializes in not only Professional dog training and agility training, but rattlesnake avoidance training. And she’s also a certified dog behavior consultant. So it was just really fascinating to hear her perspective and talk to her about her sweet pups. And just a note, because I am behind and editing some of these episodes, her sweet bones has passed since we had this conversation. So I’m especially grateful that we had the opportunity to learn about her and their journey together. So I know that you will enjoy this conversation as much as I did. Just sit back and listen and smile.
Eileen:
Hey, can you see me?
Julie Jackson:
I can.
Eileen:
Awesome.
Julie Jackson:
How are you?
Eileen:
I’m good. How are you?
Julie Jackson:
I’m good. Thank you so much for doing this.
Eileen:
Oh, thanks for inviting me. This is fun. I was looking at those other episodes and stuff is very cool.
Julie Jackson:
Oh, thank you. It’s been really fun to do. Like, it’s just fun to talk about dogs.
Unknown:
Well, yeah. Everybody’s got stories. And yeah.
Julie Jackson:
Well, and you know, it’s funny, because some people are like, Oh, I don’t really have a story. But then they start talking. And it may not be like a story. But then you just like hear, like how their whole life has been changed by this dog. And it’s like, that’s a story.
Unknown:
Right? Right. It doesn’t have to be something that’s just kind of like over the top or anything even, you know, Korea. Yeah, I feel like each dog or, you know, each pet just really has, you know, the way that they weave themselves into our lives. It’s them as individuals to Yes,
Julie Jackson:
and how they have such unique personalities. And I always feel kind of maybe sad, or maybe kind of glad when people realize it. But people who’ve always thought of dogs is just like something that they keep in their backyard or something. And then they’re around, and they go, Oh my gosh, your dogs are so funny, or they’re so sweet or whatever. Or they start spending more time with their dogs. And then they start realizing they’re not just this thing, right? You know, but that oh my goodness, they understand. Yeah.
Unknown:
Yeah, exactly. They all do. It’s not like yours, or, you know, the unique in that way your mind cuz I’ve heard the same thing too. And I’m like, why? Sometimes, like, these have to connect with that specific animal. Or sometimes I feel like people, they had another dog. They’re like, Oh, this new dog has no personality, or he’s just loud or whatever. And, you know, they’re all different. And you have to just find a way to connect. And I mean, they haven’t found a dog that doesn’t have their own complex personality and their own story.
Julie Jackson:
Yes. So one of the things I loved so much when we heard you talk is how you kept talking about different ways to set the dog up for success. And I think that’s a big thing, too, is like we just rescued a new pup right before that week. And yeah, fortunately, our daughter was staying home. So she she was still in the same environment with our daughter. So it was disruptive. It’s funny, because you know, when we got her, her fosters for like, she’s really shy. And you know, she’s really friendly, but she’s really shy and she is really adorable and friendly. But we’re laughing now because we’re like, Her nickname is The sheriff. We’re like, She’s not shy at all. She just comfortable, you know? And now she’s bossing everyone else around. You.
Unknown:
Oh, that is so funny. She just, you know, she had to be in an environment where she could really let her personality come out where she felt safe to be herself. Yeah,
Julie Jackson:
I think so. They just need a little time to know that okay, it’s I’m safe here and I’m not gonna nothing’s bad’s gonna happen if I’m just myself. Well, tell us about who you’re going to talk about today. Oh,
Unknown:
well, um, I have a right now I have two dogs. I have Bones who’s 13 years old and she’s a Dutch Kooikerhondjes. And we’ve had her since she was a puppy. And then I have Gilgamesh who is a four year old at the same breed and gosh, like even though you know they’re the same and everything they’re so different and it’s just been really neat, you know, watching them and how they approach situations, you know, from the time that we’ve had them and seeing how they both approach things so differently, like, you know, we just opened up our pool for the summer. And because we’re in Las Vegas, it is just it’s so hot anymore. And you know, like Gilgamesh, like his breeder when we got him he was just, she did such a nice job like trying to help him and all the other puppies feel confident to explore. And that’s something that I’ve always liked with my dogs to explore. And we bought like a property for the dogs more or less like our house and everything. We didn’t care about the house, we’re like, oh, this is a nice property. They’ll love sniffing around every morning. And we really liked that. But not all dogs, as you probably know, really feel that comfortable exploring. Well, this guy when we brought him home, you know, she had some kind of kiddie pool for him. And and all the other puppies and he went and saw our big pool, and we got in the pool, and we thought, Oh, we’re gonna really have to coax this puppy to come in because our other two dogs, we also had another one named Beowulf at the time, they didn’t want to go near that pool, even though they’d had it for a year, like going into something new like that. They’re just more weary, you know, totally different personality and probably shaped by some of the early things I did or didn’t do, maybe, you know, just part of who they are. But Gilgamesh sees us and he just goes and jumps right in. We’re like, oh, my gosh, and, you know, he’s, it seemed like, it’s kind of surprised them. He thought it was like a kiddie pool, and then realize, like a cannibal. Yeah, he’s like, Okay, that wasn’t what I expected. But it’s just really interesting. Yeah, because I just really enjoy watching them explore their environment. Like we’ll go outside in the mornings. And because while here, I’m sure like they’re to where you’re at, it’s just getting really hot during Yeah, yeah. So we’ll sit outside with coffee or breakfast in the shade in the morning, watch the birds. And, you know, Gilgamesh will just stand there motionless, but except for his nose, going just as nose as keeps on going. And it’s so interesting watching how they’re exploring the world. You know, they’re exploring, like a whole different world than we are. And I just, I don’t know, I’m a dork. I love watching that kind of stuff. And, you know, we’ve been struggling a little bit lately, because our older dog bones, she’s 13. And she’s starting to show some of that dementia stuff, you know, and she has moments where she just almost like a puppy, like she’s aged backwards in a way, you know, we come home and she says, zooming around, and she’s so excited and more energetic than, you know, the four year old Gilgamesh. But the one thing we’ve been so happy about is that, you know, even though she has moments where she gets fearful or nervous, or like, you know, last night, there was one moment where for a moment, she didn’t realize who I was across the room. And once I came, that was the first time that happened when I came over, she’s like, Oh, what’s your mommy, but her love of exploring has not stopped like right before I came on the call with you, we went outside, she’s doing her little perimeter checks of the property just sniffing around seeing where the bunnies and a little ground squirrels have gone. And it just brings me such joy, like, and so like to see animals doing that, like fulfilling things for themselves, you know, just getting out there and just having fun, and I happen upon a spot where she buried some little two deinem and I’m like, you could have done a better job. Like, you know,
Julie Jackson:
she was like, that was just for me. Yeah,
Unknown:
yeah, she’s always on us. And she’s a puppy and still 13 years old. Like, she’ll go and bury stuff. And she’s allowed in certain spots, like behind the shrug or something, you know, where I don’t really mind that. But um, yeah, it’s, it’s funny. It’s funny to see it’s something I really like is seeing animals explore when nobody’s telling them what to do. They’re just kind of doing you know, whatever, you know, whatever drives they have, you know, in that whole seeking mode, like checking this out learning about what’s going on around them. It’s kind of cool.
Julie Jackson:
I know and there’s lots of times that I think those but when they do that, too, it’s like I wish I knew what they were thinking yes I wish I knew what what what drew them to that and then what’s keeping them there like what’s so fascinating and like when you talk about I love the image of of his little nose just moving but But you think about how many more things that they smell than we do anything that that could be just overload right there. In the end, it’s like, Oh, I wish I just knew
Unknown:
what oh, yeah, no, we’ve thought that too, because sometimes you just really have no idea no idea at all. And I’m like, wow, he’s like, getting a totally different experience out the words right now than I am, like, totally taking in all this other stuff than what I’ve noticed. saying and a whole different experience. Yes, it’s really neat to see I love that kind of stuff.
Julie Jackson:
We one night a few weeks ago, our daughter also. So our new pup you might see her moving through here. She is a little cowboy Corgi. So she’s blue heeler Corgi mix. So she has a corgi stature. She’s very funny, very cute. Her name is Darcy. And then our daughter has a little terrier mix. And so they’re they’re both pretty small. And we took them out for a walk together just through the neighborhood. And there’s kind of some trails and a little neighborhood park. And so you know, we were just out strolling with them. And it was the sun was starting to go down. So it was still light out, but dusk, and we’re walking. And of course, they have to sniff everything. And they’re checking everything out. And they’re, you know, and which, like you said, it’s so it’s just fun to watch, you know, the epitome of stop and smell the roses, or the rock or the leaf for the you know, but it was funny, because as we were heading, I mean, it’s we’re a suburban neighborhood, and we’re heading back up to where this little trail goes to the street. And there’s houses all around us, but there’s probably about 10 feet of grass area between the trail and the fence to the backyard of the houses. And all of a sudden Darcy just freezes. And she’s just locked on to something and and we were kind of, you know, we’re like, Oh, something caught her attention. And I looked and I saw a weed that was taller than all the other grass. And I was like, Oh, she’s fascinated by that weed. And we were kind of laughing and I thought well, we’ll let her look at it. And, and, and then I was like, Oh yeah, it’s kind of blowing in the breeze. I guess that’s what got her attention. And then all of a sudden, I was like, wait a minute, there is no breeze. It was a snake.
Unknown:
Oh, geez. Yes. And yeah,
Julie Jackson:
because of the lighting and everything. You could really only almost see silhouettes like, and we never would have seen it. But it was like up and doing this business. And
Unknown:
oh, geez. Yeah. And we never had like too much.
Julie Jackson:
Bless her heart. And you know, he was taller than her and she was just like, she was so serious. And, and she picked up on it. I mean, she picked up on it, you know, even feet before we got to that point. And so of course then we hustled out of there, but I was so mad. It’s so amazing. And I was so thankful to because I was like it could have continued right along and we wouldn’t have ever known if she hadn’t been there. Yeah,
Unknown:
she didn’t go after it though. Or any? No, she I think that
Julie Jackson:
I mean, of course she of course she was on leash and I don’t know, I think she would have been, she would have probably like she was not scared at all. And I think if I would have let her go check it out. And I almost did because she was kind of like almost stalking. You know, and yeah. And so I almost did because I was kind of laughing about Oh, you want to go see the weed and then when I realized I was like why is that we blowing in the wind that there’s no oh my gosh, then I could see what it was. And I was like what’s going on here? Yeah. But we were like you’re definitely the hero of this walk.
Unknown:
Oh my gosh, yeah, no, we’ve had stuff like that with rattlesnakes on walks before and ours are trained by scent to like move away and avoid them but it’s only for like they only know the scent of rattlers like because they each have like their specific scent. Because I’ve seen with my dogs before when we’ve hiked they really aren’t too interested in snakes and we’ve only encountered like little you know, harmless things, but they’ll be curious. Well, when they’ve been on property before they’ve been curious when we’re off property, they just ignore them. But so I was always concerned that you know, if we were on our property because we live in a semi rural type area so we have like, you know, an acre or so. And you know, that’s entirely possible there could be something and we wouldn’t know because they just kind of blend in or they hide under stuff. But we’ve never had them on property but I remember when we lived in Florida before because my husband was in the military and we moved around a bit bones she was younger but she would just make friends with all these different animals had come on the property I remember her just going up the turtles and going up to different types of snakes. She just makes friends everywhere she goes and like you don’t need any rattlesnake friends.
Julie Jackson:
Appreciate your heart but let’s not be
Unknown:
friends. Yeah. Yeah, cuz I think she thought Well, I gotta check this out. It’s on my property. And then she’d be like, Oh, you’re okay, you can hang out here and I’m like, You need to make any rattler friends. So yeah, we did that once we moved to Vegas, you just you know you never know what they’re taking in like they notice things that are hitting hidden under stop. You don’t even know they’re there. Like Gilgamesh he slid a little bit on the floor. Whereas in our house and, you know, because we have like hard floors, like a lot of people do, and it was just a little slide and I’m always watching him like a hawk, and I noticed the slight lifts slightest little irregularity and his gait. So I think He strained his ilio. So it’s a little bit and so I was arresting him. And you know, we have bunnies stuff like that all the property. So when I was taking him out for like, a week or so he’s going on leash. So that whole exploring, you know, I’m like, Well, you can explore, we’re just not going to run into it. You know, we’re going to try to be calm, which is a real challenge for him. But I’d let him kind of take me wherever he wanted to go. Well, you know, they’re shrubs. And normally, there’s nothing in there. All of a sudden, he just started the other day, because there’s a little bunny in there. Like, I had no idea and he just he knew it.
Julie Jackson:
Yeah, they Yeah, way before we do, they’re on it.
Unknown:
Yeah. Yeah. So that’s yeah, that’s been it’s always interesting seeing all that. But now they seem like they are pretty good about, you know, springtime, because we always get lots of little fledglings, lots of little babies of different sorts. That’s just so joyful. Seeing all those come out. And I’m just so happy are our dogs are good about that, you know, but we also go in the yard and try to flush things out like okay, go to your little homes before the dogs come out. Yes, we get scared.
Julie Jackson:
Right? Yeah. All right. We, I wish we were on a bigger place. But our yard is pretty small. And we’re really close to our neighbors fortunately have great neighbors and they’re all dog people. But yes, yes, wonderful. But we we had a little possum family, and I love possums too. I mean, they’re such great little neighbors, you know, and I love it. But we’re the only ones that really have big established trees. And I don’t know if maybe that’s what was appealing. But I felt so bad because of all the yards, Mama possum moved into our yard. And I know when I was like we have the dogs. I mean, lots of people have dogs that are our big guys. We call them the flutes and you might see at least big fluffy tails going by. That’s them. And there are Husky wolf mixes. And
Unknown:
oh, yeah, I remember you telling me about them. Yeah. Oh, cool. Yes. And they’re
Julie Jackson:
sweet as can be. But they’re just kind of, you know, big glutes, you know, and, and they would get those awesome babies and they didn’t, they would play rough with them and they would kill them. And yeah,
Unknown:
one of them in the background member you wanted pictures? Yeah, just so gorgeous. Thank
Julie Jackson:
you. Yeah, well, so Darcy, the new ones in the chair right beside me. And then Eleanor is our 12 year old healer and she’s at my feet. And then chuck, one of the flips is at my feet. And Barney is probably he’s probably like dumping a recycle bin or something because he knows he’s the most mischievous cue. Anytime this happens. He’s like, Oh, good. I can go do I can go to Yes.
Unknown:
She doesn’t have eyes on me. I can do what I want. Yeah,
Julie Jackson:
yeah. So I’ll come out and find some kind of shredded paper or something. I’m like, okay, yeah. Cute.
Unknown:
Oh, yeah, we had possums. Not at this property. But I remember we had him in when we lived in South Carolina and had him in Florida. And again, Bones is like, oh, let’s be friends. And the possums are like no,
Julie Jackson:
no. Yeah. No,
Unknown:
she just, you know, approaches everything with a certain curiosity. And, you know, like, some dogs aren’t like you were saying, like, aren’t so curious. They’re more like predatory, you know, whereas other ones are guarding their property with with her. She just seemed curious. She’s like, just bumbling about, like, you know, wanting to make friends.
Julie Jackson:
See, and I think the boys thought they were I think the boys really honestly, we’re just trying to play with them. Like it really playing. Yeah, it wasn’t. It wasn’t like a it didn’t seem like a predatory thing. Oh, that’s good. Yeah. Which it could have been? I don’t know. But but from what we could tell, I think I think it was more just they just didn’t recognize the disparity in the size and that it was, you know, and I think I could see that. Yeah, yeah, we, we did have one it was during COVID. And my like, I guess it was 2020. And my husband and I both had COVID. And so we just felt miserable. And we have we put a storm door on our back door, and we put a doggie door in the storm door. So when we’re home, we can open the back door but the storm doors still shut and they can come and go. But then that way we can close it off when we don’t know. Yeah. So. So when we’re home most of the time, we just leave that back door open in the storm door so they can you know, come and go as they please. And we’re getting ready to go to bed and both of us felt miserable. And we were trying to get them to come in and we could not get to Up to come in and my husband went out in the yard to try to hit like he wanted to play and so he was running. And all of a sudden he came running high speed through that dog door and just as he hit the dog door, I realized why he wouldn’t come in and why he was running in so fast and he had a live possum in his mouth. Oh my god. I mean, came flying into the live. Yeah, and you can fly in the house and when he hit that dog Dori hit it just right that it knocked the positive out of his mouth. The poor possum spun across the kitchen floor on its back.
Unknown:
Oh my gosh is in your house
Julie Jackson:
was yelling for my husband was a total chaos. But fortunately, we got the dogs in and the poor possum back out in the yard. So and the possum was fine. Like we went out there a little bit later, and he was gone. But like
Unknown:
stuff you don’t expect, like it’s so crazy. Well, that’s how we ended up flushing the animals away because I remember little Beowulf and Gilgamesh like they picked up little fledgling birds before that could fly. And they didn’t do anything to them, like and when I said drop it, they actually just dropped it right away. And, you know, and, you know, I was horrified. Like, oh my gosh, these poor Mama’s are probably overhead watching and just seeing their little baby picked up. Because I remember, one of the boys picked it up. I said, drop it, and the other one went and picked it up. And I was like, No, drop it. And they did and I was able to get the dogs in. But like these little fledgling, they just would hop around on the ground and you know, didn’t realize they were out. So that’s when in the springtime, we started trying to shoo them away a little bit or see who’s around because we won’t let them out like if those little guys are on the ground. But yeah, it is the same thing where I don’t know what their intentions were if they just thought, hey, this is another toy or we’re playing or what it was, but thank God it didn’t hurt. Um, yes. Yes, I was. I think so upset NATO were like, Mom, why are you upset about this? Like, Isn’t this so cool? Yeah, they bring you gifts. Yeah, yeah. Cuz I was like, kind of panicky. I see like the bird’s eye is like soaping.
Julie Jackson:
This look like somebody helped me please. Yes. So, of course, I’m laughing because when you say drop it, you know, your dogs obey. Yet, but a lot of that has to do with the fact that you have such an interesting job. So would you share a little bit about what you
Unknown:
do? Um, yeah, so I do dog behavior, consulting. And then also some training too. But mostly, I do like behavior cases for anxiety, stress, aggression, fear, phobias, that sort of thing. And then sometimes I just get to work with wonderful little puppies that just need general training or older dogs that want to learn more, but doing a lot of behavior cases. So that’s so rewarding, though, because like I said, Every dog should feel safe, and where they can explore their environment, they can just enjoy life. But for some of them, they just don’t for whatever reason, like they’re stressed, or they’re not able to currently understand how they’re supposed to interact in their environment. So you have these undesirable behaviors, and people aren’t allowing them in different situations, because they don’t trust that they’re going to have certain behavior. So it’s really nice, being able to be in the middle there to try to help people understand why is my dog doing this and figure out why that why their dog is what they need, and then provide solutions and training. So yeah, cuz I want every dog to you know, have that sort of relationship with their owner and, you know, mine do listen and everything, but it’s not because they’re so much smarter than anybody else’s dogs, like I worked with them from the moment we got them. And I’ve been very fortunate that, you know, that I’ve been able to have those skills because I think about years ago, like, like bones, she didn’t get the same level of training and socialization and all that when she was young compared to the other ones. Like we took her places, but sometimes, you know, I think about hey, maybe like I took her places too fast, like places that were too busy or too noisy, or I should have trained this earlier or whatever, you know, like you learn as you’re going along. And so it’s nice, being able to take like, you know, my education, my experiences working with all the 1000s of different dogs and like, offer that to other people. Because, you know, people sometimes they’re like, I wish I’d done that. I wish I’d done this. I’m like, Hey, me, too. Yeah, with every dog you learn and you in you grow.
Julie Jackson:
Yeah, in hindsight is always 2020. Oh, yeah, totally. Like, oh, yeah, that would have been a great idea. Yeah. So our one of our neighbors, they recently rescued a new guy, and he’s a doodle. And I found him in a shelter. And I know and I don’t know, they don’t know what obviously what his story was. They said he was all matted and had big ears. And you know, it did not come from like, he came from something, but nobody knows what. And so anyway, he, when our dogs are out in the yard, and he’s out in the yard he gets really upset, is like super aggressive through the fence. And when they come and try to bring him in, you know, he, I think they were afraid at first that we thought they were beating him or something because he saw dramatic about it and talking to him the other day. And he said, Well, we found out now they have another dog. And he does fine with their dog. But he said, we found out he’s dog reactive. So he’s fine with people. And who knows what happened. But he’s very dog reactive. And so they’re working on that. And he said, Yeah, we’re just not sure, though, because you know how to work with him. And I said, Well, we just met someone that you might need to talk to.
Unknown:
Yeah, do you like is being so I’d love to talk with them or that find to help them find somebody in their local area to who could help because a lot of times those things can be addressed. I actually see like a lot of reactivity and doodles like it’s not unusual. And we see it to happen in certain breeds. And sometimes we see it with doodles. It’s not always an aggression thing, either. There’s so many reasons they can be reacting to things. And it sure sounds like heat that poor dog, he’s been through a lot and who knows, like what kind of different experiences he’s had. So hopefully they can, you know, talk with well, either me or somebody else and help figure that out and get him set up for success. Because he sounds like he’s really lucky to come to their place, you know, or somebody’s trying to understand him,
Julie Jackson:
either. Very, yeah, they’re very sweet with. They had another Doodle. And then he had a very sudden, like, he very suddenly and unexpectedly passed. And he was yeah, oh, yeah. And it was, it hasn’t been that long ago. I don’t remember exactly how many months ago, but within the last, not even year. And so then when they have a real heart for doodles. And so then when they saw this Doodle in the shelter, they were like, Oh, my goodness, that you know, and that she felt like that was that was meant to be, but I’m so glad to know, because I didn’t know, since we’re so far apart, and I told him I go I don’t know if she could do anything virtually, or if maybe just help you find someone. But I
Unknown:
said, Yeah, I do stop over zoom. And I’m also happy to help them find somebody local to either way, because, yeah, a lot of times that can be helped. And it sounds like, you know, he’s, he’s come from a rough situation. But a lot of dogs are reactive when we actually seen more that during COVID. Because people’s lifestyles have changed. Sometimes they weren’t getting out as much with puppies as they could have, you know, before and just, you know, we don’t always have people to our homes as much as we previously did. I know for my dogs, like they changed socially as well, because we had nobody to our house for two years, you know. And then also, too, they weren’t meeting up with other people’s dogs, because I used to have group classes, but then I stopped those because like, we weren’t allowed to have group classes. And I think that was really good for my dogs getting to be around these other dogs and around other people. Because with Quakers, their breed like they’re usually not super social with other dogs, but I like to keep them around other dogs. So they know how to navigate those situations, you know, like they can breed and say, Hello, be friends not feel like there, something’s going to happen to them, you know. But then when they weren’t around other dogs for that time, like they started getting a little weary. And so after COVID, I started to see like some mild reactivity as well. And I saw that with a lot of my clients too. We also saw some separation anxiety. Once I started actually going back out to client appointments. I remember Gilgamesh he started working in the house. Once I started leaving, I was like, Oh my God. Yeah, and like he was start, you know, crying, and so were the other two as well, but his like, he would urine mark, and it was distress, it was a stress of it. And so we had our own little challenges to work through just like everybody else, you know, they’re complex, you know, little creatures, like they’re just like people in some ways where they’re not simple. They each have like these emotions going on and have to figure out why they’re doing these behaviors. A lot of times people are like, well, I want to stop this, or I want to stop this. And I’m like, Well, why are they doing it? You know, because for them, they were just very anxious after COVID they didn’t know how to handle being alone. Because even though I tried to go out and just walk around on my own or drive around the block, we were home the other 22 hours of the day, you know, they weren’t used to being on their own, or once we started getting out in these social situations are like, well, these aren’t so familiar. How do I handle these and it was just like with us. We also had some of our own little social anxieties about how we handle these things because We’re not used to being at parties or being, you know, events where there’s lots of other people around. And so who knows, like, with that, that doodle, I have just seen a lot of that anymore. And I always like to share with people, Hey, you’re not alone, I think there isn’t a dog who hasn’t been affected in some way. You know, by all the social changes and upheaval that have gone on the last few years, because I used to see reactivity, some see a whole lot more of it. Now.
Julie Jackson:
That’s interesting. And it you know, that brings up such a good point, because it’s true, even for us, and I had not thought about this until you said that, but probably for the dogs too, you know, things that we go out after COVID and things that used to be socially acceptable. Now the sudden you’re kind of like, oh, I don’t know, is that, like, do we shake hands? You know, you meet someone, and you’re kind of like I, you know, and, and a lot, there’s probably a lot of things to the dogs are kind of like, I don’t know, is this okay? Am I allowed to do right? You know? No,
Unknown:
that’s so true. Because before people would stop and talk to you on the street more, and during COVID, you know, nobody was stopping to talk to anybody. So then when somebody does approach the owner and say, hey, that’s such a cute dog, well, you know, what’s his name or something? Now, sometimes you’re seeing where they want to guard the owner, or the dog thinks that this is unusual, because they haven’t seen that happen before. And so things that used to be more common and every day to the dog, that’s something abnormal. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah, it’s not the dog’s fault. It’s not behavior we want. But it’s like, well, when you think about it’s like, okay, to them, this is abnormal situation, and they’re not sure what to do about it, or how they’re supposed to feel or how they’re supposed to behave. So well. And
Julie Jackson:
yeah, to to them to yours to them. That might, you know, two years of doing things a certain way, and then going back to a different way. Two years might be like, practically a lifetime. In their perspective. Absolutely.
Unknown:
Yeah. And honestly, to me, too, it feels like a long time. Like I it feels like it’s a you know, just when you think of you know how things were before and how they are now it feels like it’s been a long time. So to know, it’s, I think there’s nobody that’s not that hasn’t been affected by it. So I always like to tell people, though, just because they’re doing this now, or they feel this way. Now, that’s not always how it has to be. So it’s hard to find the right help or go to the right places, though. So yeah, but I always tell people, like find somebody who’s trying to look at the emotions behind it. You know why? You’re not just trying to stop this stop back kind of thing?
Julie Jackson:
Yes, I are neighbors. I know. They’ve really been working with him. And oh, yeah, yes, yeah. And I know when they when he goes out in the yard, now they have him on a long lead, and kind of go out there with him. And instead of just because I know that we and we always try to if we realize they were out there, we’d always try to bring ours in, because ours have the doggie door, they can go in and out whenever so if we pull them in, they’re not missing out on any privileges. You know, they try other opportunities. And so we don’t want his time to be ruined, because they’re out there. But they have dogs all around them, too. So I think they said, you know, we’re kind of working with him on the lead to kind of keep him from getting up against the fence and getting upset by the other.
Unknown:
Yeah. Oh, no, that’s really hard, especially with property boundaries, too, because sometimes they’re fine outside the home when they see dog but then if they see him on the other side of that property, too, they want to guard it. I know when we moved to our current property like four years ago, you know, well, Bones she’s never really had too much of guarding tendencies, not nothing too bad. Which is not unusual for Quaker hundreds of bark you know, when they see somebody or something but they a wolf, there was nothing more in this world he enjoyed than guarding something you know, and he would never guard things from us or anything like that you can take a bully stick or take food he never guard things like that. He likes to alert mark you know that he sees something out here see something out there, he thinks he’s done a it was a job well done. So we had to teach new behaviors, but it was so hard because we went from a home and a normal neighborhood with a very small yard, typical Las Vegas, the yards, like mostly rock to and then we came to this property that has like a horse arena. And it’s got like, all this space, it’s more perimeter to guard. And so then we our neighbors have like, you know, horses, she chickens, dogs, you know, and then on the other side, like the road where like people will walk and stuff. So, you know, he’s always willing to do these perimeter checks. And it almost got to be stressful. It was like too much, you know, too much territory and too much for him to keep track of. So we had to do similar stuff where we would go outside with him every single time. And we would teach him like hey, yes, you notice that and I’ll turn and look at mom and it’s a predictor of a tree, you know, because he was seeing Horses heads looking over the walls, and he would feel threatened because they’re looking at him. Or if they have a fly mask on, and he didn’t care about horses, it’s like he’s on his property. And he sees them looking at him, that kind of changed things, or, you know, when he would see like a dog or person’s head over the wall. And so we spent several weeks working on that with him. Every time he would see something or like, oh, good boy, yes, you noticed it, you know, now you have to check it with mom. So instead of noticing it, and charging at it and go on crazy trying to tell it to go away, we changed how he felt about it, and then taught like a new behavior, like, Okay, check in with mom let her know, like, hey, yeah, I noticed this, and then go on about your business. And it worked really well. And for me, it wasn’t just getting rid of the barking behavior. Because you know, you don’t want to be the bad neighbor where your dog is going crazy and whatnot, I saw what physiological toll it was taking on him, where he just constantly wanted to go outside, because he’s like, I gotta do this, you know, like, there’s, there’s things going on, and I’m not on top of it. And it was stressing him out so much. You know, because he felt like every time to that he was outside, of course, he would always notice something. And he just couldn’t let go of it and just be a dog exploring, like the other ones, you know, just sniffing around or digging a hole or something or, you know, running around. Yeah, exactly. And so we got to where he could, but we had to go out every single time with a little Ziploc baggie with some kibbles are treats in it and, and work with them, but it didn’t take as long as you would think, you know, it just was the consistency of it just to change that feeling because he felt like this fear and stress. You know, it wasn’t just he guarded for purpose, but I think he also was dressed by these things are, you know, teaching the new behaviors. So eventually, he was just like, Yeah, whatever. You know, he wasn’t bothered by something unless it was at our front door. So Right. Yeah.
Julie Jackson:
Well, I know it was Blue Heelers, one of the things that they always kind of warn, especially new Blue Heeler people is that they, most of them need a job. And oh, yeah, if you don’t give them a job, they will find a job and and sometimes that job is taking your couch apart or you don’t necessarily a job wasn’t good. And we kind of laughed because our Blue Heeler, Lil sorry, Lily and Eleanor, they were sisters. We lost Lily on Easter. So we have so it’s Eleanor, but Eleanor has always been very serious. And during COVID, I had the opportunity to work from home more, and she would sit at my desk with me every day. And if I was on a call, and the other dogs started getting loud, she would shut them down. And so we started joking, even my boss, we all refer to her as the office manager. And so still now people refer to her as the OM. It’s like, what’s the OM doing? You know, but do feel a certain sense of responsibility. And I could see how if he had this big perimeter and all these sensory things, he’s like, You need to hire more staff. I can’t do all this by myself.
Unknown:
That’s what that’s exactly what it seemed like they find these natural roles like that when we move to the property because he did not do that at the previous one. But um, yeah, it was just got overwhelming. That’s so cute about her.
Julie Jackson:
Yeah, she she would just be like, That’s it. We’ve had enough. But years ago, I lived on a larger piece of land. And so we fenced in a yard for the dogs that were so we were on four acres. And so the dog yard part was just right off the house. And it was smaller. But the fence was kind of chicken wire. So you could see through it. It wasn’t like a privacy fence. And in our neighbor that it was it had been farmland. And so the houses were just kind of haphazardly. They were all like older houses that were just kind of built wherever before there were any kind of rules. And so our neighbor would always come over and visit and he would walk past the back fence area and walk around to the front of our house. And we had the sweetest little border collie mix named Murphy. And I don’t know what had happened to Murphy but but Murphy had, I don’t think been treated very kindly before before he rescued me. And but he was so sweet. And our neighbor would get so tickled because if Murphy was out in the yard whenever our neighbor walked past the fence the entire time, Murphy was running barking at him just vicious, you know, just guarding guarding. Yeah. And then our neighbor would come in the front door, we would let Murphy in the back door and Murphy would immediately run up to our neighbor and set his like put his chin on his leg and sit there with his head in his lap the whole time. Yeah, as friends. And then when he would leave out the front door Murphy would run out the back door and the whole way across the fence. He would snarl and bark and he’s like, Yeah, you know, and it’s so funny because he’s like, What are you doing? We just spent the whole evening together hanging out to work. This is my job. So yes,
Unknown:
no, it’s funny how like they they think about things like that they have very clear, you know, ideas that their roles and like where their property is and what they’re supposed to do about it. It’s so cute. They’re so serious. They’re very some of them are very serious about their work. Yeah. Especially like a border collie. And Murphy. Yeah.
Julie Jackson:
Yeah, he Yeah, he was so sweet. We always laughed because we had him when our daughter was born. And it took me a while to kind of figure it out. But, and I think I’ve told the story before, but he did not show a lot of interest in her. He didn’t like one way or the other. He almost seemed kind of indifferent. He wasn’t super curious about her, you know, and he wasn’t, you know, like, aggressive towards or anything. It was just kind of indifferent. But then all of a sudden, one day, I realized that every time I go to look for him if I couldn’t find him, he was always outside the door of whatever room she was in.
Unknown:
Oh, yeah. So they didn’t. He wasn’t fawning over her. He was doing a job.
Julie Jackson:
Yeah, yeah. And it’s No, he wasn’t like, it wasn’t an upset with her thing or like a What is she up to thing. But if the door was open, he’d be in the threshold of that room. But like if she was taking her nap, and I’d look around, I couldn’t find Murphy. I’d go look and he’d be laying outside. You know, where no one, no one was gonna get to her without having without him knowing without getting past him for
Unknown:
his little clock. Yeah, all that is very precious. I know. I’ve seen cases like that before to where they’re like, Well, I just need to make sure I got eyes on things, you know, with this new little one. Yeah, they just kind
Julie Jackson:
of watch and I, I have often said, I’m not a good dog trainer. But my dogs always seem to be very effective. People trainers sign really quickly. So those were things that they weren’t taught, you know, they just kind of adopt them. Once? No,
Unknown:
I always feel like there’s a bit on each end. Like we ended up changing our ways to like, you know, mesh with them. And then they ended up changing if the mesh with ours, you know, just like any relationship, you know, with people, there’s always compromise and give and take.
Julie Jackson:
Yes, yeah. Yeah. And hopefully we all come out of it better for the
Unknown:
That’s exactly right. Yeah. Cuz I feel like, you know, no relationship with people is like a one way street or a one always is doing all the giving, and all the compromise and gotta be a bit of both ways and can clear communication and understanding. And I think it’s no different with animals. You know, I think there’s been a lot of this mentality before about how it’s got to be militaristic and very strict, and all this obedience and stuff. And, you know, that’s not, that’s no fun. Nobody likes being treated like that. And it’s, it gets past the idea of like, where they’re sentient feeding beings that we need to meet their needs, and they do have all these different needs. And each animal is so different. And like, we’re going through that right now with bones, like, where her needs have changed over time. You know, with her getting older. And, you know, it’s like you want to if they really are a family member, like that’s the very first thing you have to do is figure out what what are what are this dog’s needs? And I know, talking with you, you’ve gone through that a lot with your different dogs, and you have such very different dogs, each one of them, you know, even the two wolf mixes, like they’re very different. And
Julie Jackson:
yes, chuck in bar. Yeah, yes. Yeah. Yeah. And like
Unknown:
my, they’ve all been like the same breed and stuff, but they’re very, very different. And, you know, you just have to treat them as individuals, and then you know, all the other stuff, like, we just change things around, like, you know, usually they’ll sleep in bed with me, for example, but, you know, sometimes I noticed, hey, they don’t really want to be in there. So here’s another spot that you can go and you know, rest or, you know, during my appointments, like I do some things over zoom, and they like to be near me, but I don’t want them jumping on my chair or doing stuff like that saying, hello. And so I have little spots, and I’ve kind of trained them to be there. And they’re it’s close enough that they feel happy. They feel like they’re part of the action, you know, so it’s compromise there. They wouldn’t be happy if they weren’t with me, but we found a spot where everybody’s happy. You know? I feel like there’s a lot of that I’m like, you know, it doesn’t have to be my way or the highway that’s why I often tell people and you’re not going to be as happy trying to make that happen. I feel like there’s got to be given take with stuff. Yes,
Julie Jackson:
yeah, that’s probably wise just in general for everything. Yes.
Unknown:
makes things a lot easier. You know, like right now Gilgamesh is just napping on a bed here next to me bones is over here napping and well says there to do in some We’re time in Las Vegas, so
Julie Jackson:
I know that’s still pretty it’s still a pretty perfect thing even even when the weather’s perfect to have them all right, they’re napping is not a bad deal.
Unknown:
Oh yeah. I love it. I love having them near and they like being close and so yeah, you know how it is guys seeing your guys walking by too I love Yes
Julie Jackson:
I am. Okay, I’m going to turn and show you see if we can get the seat you can see the new one there. Can you see oh my
Unknown:
oh I see but yours. Yeah. Oh. Oh, so cute. She
Eileen:
sound asleep right now. Hey, Darcy Darcy. Hi. Can you say hi?
Unknown:
Adorable? Yeah, one of my friends got a dog from the rescue group here a few years ago. That’s a healer Corgi mix. And I’ve never seen one of those before but she looks just like a healer except she’s got those shorty little legs. Yes. So you Yeah, her name is Tito and she is just bundles a fun and yeah, what year a little Dorothy looks a lot like that.
Julie Jackson:
Yeah, they know and I don’t know if they call him this everywhere. But in Texas, there’s breeders. I mean, they’re not recognized by but they call them cowboy corgis?
Unknown:
Oh, did they breed them for like a specific job or something? Like I use on the ranches? I don’t
Julie Jackson:
know, to tell you the truth. I don’t know if it’s if it’s more of a novelty thing. Or if it is, I mean, they’re smart as a whip. And of course I think Yeah. And, and very, I mean, she could work cattle, you know?
Unknown:
Oh, I believe it. I think this girl Tayto my friend’s dog could work cattle. And she definitely likes to knit pet stuff, you know, at your ankles or things. You know, she’s got derived or yes, yeah, Darcy like that too.
Julie Jackson:
But she has not. She will go after the boys like when the boys are wrestling. She will she will go after and get in the big mix of it. But now when Lily and Eleanor are healers when they were little they would heard and it was funny because Lily would nip and Eleanor would push. So I if I was being herded. I didn’t even have to look. I knew who was hurting me based on what they did. Darcy hasn’t tried to hurt people yet, but she got in there and the flutes are a lot bigger than her. But so I’m not sure if if they breed them for that or if it’s just if some people just started doing it because there was a demand. But
Unknown:
I was always really curious because up here like we have a lot of people with ranches so we see a lot of healer Border Collie mixes. Yeah, I think because like the healers are a little sturdier and hardier of dogs for the, you know, some of the work that they do. And they’re, you know, that combination, like we see so much of them and they just have such drive. But my friend’s dog Tayto she’s just so smart. And I did some agility with her and she just, you know, was amazing at it and just so smart and driven because we see a lot of healers and agility to Yeah, and but she’s got that working drive. And so that makes sense. I wonder if people do that for the work or just because they look really neat or what it is. Because yeah, they’re, they’re very smart dogs. Well,
Julie Jackson:
and I have always thought they were just adorable. I’ve loved both those breeds. And so I was like, oh my goodness, that’s just perfect, but I’m not ever going to I will rescue because I don’t have a need for a specific breed, you know, environment where we need the them to actually do a job. So she showed up in one of the shelters and was pulled by a rescue group and they were trying to find an immediate they found an immediate foster for a really fast and then we got her a few weeks later, but she has a little like her right paw is I say before it’s a deformity her paw points in a 90 degree angle out to the side instead of straight. So it’s actually pretty adorable though because it looks like she’s in third position ballet or kind of like she has her hand on her hip. You know? They think that she might have been a breeder surrender or dump because they couldn’t because I was really shocked to see one in a shelter because people usually buy them and so I you know, I kind of wonder if it’s maybe that the breeder was like well, we can’t sell her because of this
Unknown:
little that’s terrible. It is I wouldn’t even be surprised this is awful. Yeah, I wish we had such regulations on that kind of stuff. Because here in the US it’s just awful. Like my youngest well well I got bones actually from somebody who had an oops litter and like they just were getting rid of puppies best $20 I ever spent. Like when we were milling, you know military couple, but Gilgamesh you know, like I wanted specific temperament and all this stuff, but like where I got him and actually in France, they’re only allowed to have like up to two litters per year. And to register them they have to pass all the He’s socialization tests and all these like restrictions and they’re actually very much enforced to. So like over there, you don’t have like the shelters overrun, like they are here and like because, well here in Las Vegas, it’s just crazy. Like, you know, you see all this backyard breeding and there are rescue groups who go and follow up on all these Craiglist ads and go and take pictures like because they say hey, I’m interested in a puppy even though they just want to go and take pictures of the operations. Yeah, but like we were not staffed enough here locally that the animal control officers actually follow up on all that and shut these places down. This was terrible because you see stuff like that where you know these animals are just dumped because they can’t make money sometimes dumping them in the desert or puppies that are bred but you know in these terrible conditions these poor mothers it’s just awful Yeah, yeah, but the you know, then there’s all these people lined up ready to pay for that and I’m like, don’t get don’t support those people don’t support someone who’s you know, go to the show. Go to the shelter. Yeah, I’m like oh a shelter if you’re gonna spend money on a puppy get one from somebody who’s doing things right and like you know, getting all the health testing done you know, having them in wonderful conditions and doing all this go and do one of those don’t pay somebody who’s like abusing the mother and doing all that stuff like and you know, people are like oh, well I can’t afford you know from a really good breeder then go to the shelter. There’s like a lot of wonderful cops, you know, some of them even to sometimes with the rescues, even see your purebred if you like purebred, I love like mixes purebred all of them. You know, because even in dog sports, we see a lot of these, like you were saying those those mixes like the certain designer ones that are better than like the purebred some of the sports like we see these happy on border collie mixes, you see, you know, the healer Border Collies, you see all these deal with it mixes and, you know, if I just say, you know, get the right dog for your home, but to support people who treat dogs, right?
Julie Jackson:
Yes, yes. And that’s true. There are a lot of rescues that are breed specific. So you can go out there and like on pet finder, you can put in a breed. And they’ll come you know, 200 labs or golden retrievers, or Yes, love healers or so. Yeah, yeah. Can even still rescue a specific breed. Yeah, absolutely.
Unknown:
I’m just like, please, please, please don’t go on Craigslist. Oh, yeah, no, because then people end up like I say, when you do stuff like that, you need to set aside the money you would have spent, you know, either going to a good breeder or whatever, like on veterinary behavior spills or health costs, because, you know, and no animal deserves to be unhealthy or mentally, like, psychologically unwell. And, you know, that’s like, you don’t often see it when they’re really young, but you’re going to see it when they grow up. And so if you’re going to spend money on that, like spend it on a pup who, like you’ve gotten from a rescue who needs some help? Like, support that person? You know, who’s doing that to those animals? So, you know, I see it all the time. And it’s so sad. And I know you do too. Yeah, you just want to help them all.
Julie Jackson:
I know, I wish we could. But hey, I mean, what do you do that helps that helps so many of them and gives them such a great quality of life. So I just I love that. Thank you so much for sharing, I appreciate. Is
Unknown:
that such a pleasure? And yeah, thank you for all that you do to know. I just feel like, the more like we can bring awareness, all these different things, and that there is a lot of hope for this stuff. And that you know, the way things are always what they have to be. Yes, yes. Will you have a wonderful
Julie Jackson:
weekend and please come back? Oh, I would love to Okay, let’s do. That was great. Thank you. Bye. Thank you so much for joining me today. I know that you are busy, and I really appreciate that you chose to spend some of your time with me. So let’s do a little bit of bookkeeping before we head out. If you enjoy this and you would like to receive the episodes automatically without having to seek them out. Then in your pod catcher, follow or subscribe. And that way every time an episode drops, it’ll show up for you and you’ll know that it’s there makes it super easy. You don’t have to think about it. Please go visit the website. It’s really cute. It’s got puppy pictures. Also, I’ve got a free gift for you over there if you will go check it out. And if you would like to message me if you have any suggestions specific pup stories you want to hear. Or even better if you want to share a story. You can message me right there from the website. That’s the best way to get to me for that. Check us out on all the different socials Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, LinkedIn, all of them. That’s where you’ll see pictures. Have the pups that we talk about each week. Also just other fun pup things. I’m going to put episodes on YouTube as well, sometimes the episodes are recorded via zoom. And so there’s a video and a lot of times, it’s just us talking, but every now and then there are some fun cameos from puppies or their shenanigans in the background. And you can catch all that on YouTube. If you want to help me out, if you would leave a positive review and share the podcast that would be fantastic. I would be really grateful. And once again, if you want to help me out, I would love to share your story. So please hit me up and let’s schedule the time that we can talk. Some people have shared their stories and writing. Some people have gotten on the phone and done a chat with me so we can do whatever you are most comfortable with. Finally, do not forget that you are as great as your dog thinks you are and go smoochy beach. Thanks, y’all.